An occupational hazard of being a left-activist in Hull is that more often than not, very simple arguments you’d thought you’d won a long time ago rear their ugly Dickensian heads to take another pop. This Tuesday evening it was the turn of the ‘pro-lifers’ under the guise of the Christian Network to turn up the heat. The speaker - a PhD student from Oxford but who was not a woman - was from a very shady organisation known as the Christian Medical Federation, a group that presents bigoted religious views as medical fact. Seemingly above the ‘moral’ standards that they preach, this organisation has lied continuously about the effects of abortion (see www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/tag/christian-medical-foundation).While the talk given was very academic and set out as a ‘conversation’, the conclusion was very moralistic... and there was no conversation (the bloke spoke for about 30mins, then we we’re allowed questions, then he spoke for roughly another 20mins). The speaker claimed that abortion was entirely moral and not at all political - this was a major problem - It is entirely political. The reasons women terminate pregnancies are not because they are "immoral beings", but because of emotional and socio-economic circumstances, but like most pro-life activists this was dismissed as irrelevant. Perhaps if working-class women had more faith they would forgo any choice over their own bodies?
Hull-left activist Steve Wood made the point to the speaker that if his dream of criminalising abortions was to come true, then the rich would still be able to afford decent black-market abortions on the sly whilst working-class women would be forced back to the alleys, but he wasn’t budging. At the end quotes from the good-book were given as a salute to the Christian majority in the room, and for those of us who were wondering when the attempt of conversion was coming, an invitation to attend future prayer meetings and the like.
So what should we learn from this experience? Well, the next time I take my free water outside Asylum on a Wednesday night, I’ll remember the motives of the people handing them out. Far from benevolent youngsters organising BBQ’s and football matches, these are people with a very clearly defined position on our rights as students, or more specifically, as women’s rights as women: Abortions should be illegal, and if you have an abortion, you are immoral.
We were shocked at the lack of Union representation at the event – especially as access to abortion is a student welfare issue. Indeed the only opposition came from Hull-Left activists and members of the women’s committee (notably minus the women’s officer elect).
No need to spell out where Hull-left stand on this:
Unconditionally for a women’s right to choose ; Unconditionally against religious bigotry on our campus!
For more information check-out...
32 comments:
You fail to see the moral factor in ending life? Then why not allow abortions up until birth? Why not let them kill newly born babies? If the only factors to take into account are ones of the women's welfare and 'choice', then surely you should have no problem with this?
Abortion is justified, but the line between human life and pre-human life has got to be drawn.
I used to support abortion but sadly now its too late for Helen, Stephen, Emma, Toby, Sam and Chris.
Maybe the laws could just be changed to allow it into the late teens and early twenties to deal with the problem?
I think the law should be changed. The current law against murder is a masculine conspiracy and is designed to oppress women by telling tem that they cannot kill their children.
If only we could be as enlightened as Hull Left, wouldn't the world just be such a better place?
Perhaps the women officer elect was missing because she was out campaigning for the Labour Party, rather than wasting time trying to change the minds of fundementalists who support illegalising abortion? It's not like the audience was full of people who were going to be swung by marxist ideology.
Perhaps if you showed a little more consistancy and campaigned to reelect the left we would be in a stronger position to oppose conservative ideology?
Right, a number of things.
Firstly, we have enabled anonymous posting so people can leave comments without having to fill out loads of online details. However, it would be good if poster's could be a bit less cowardly and publish their names along with their comments.
Anonymous 01 May 9.12: I'm very shocked that you'd call something as fundemantal as a women's right to chose 'Marxist ideology'. Although having said that, the term 'marxist' has been credited with such campaigns as abolishing the men's officer and the creation of a black officer.
As for campaigning for Labour and opposing conservative ideology - see Steve's post on Mayday directly above this one. I wonder why members of the women's committee decided to show up instead of campaigning?
More later...
where were you when they shut down hull agricultural college???
You're just jealous the women officer-elect is in the CSA!
If the lazy loony left had done some more campaigning and less pointless moaning maybe we wouldn't have BoJo in London today!
BoJo's better than a trot.
"I'm not in favour of the army, I'm in favour of replacing it with armed workers' brigades to defend the factories"
"World wide capitalism kills more people everyday than Hitler did."
"One thing that Chairman Mao did was to end the appalling foot binding of women. That alone justifies the Mao Tse-tung era"
"Perhaps if they're not happy here they can go back to Iran and try their luck with ayatollahs"
"Ariel Sharon, Israel's prime minister, is a war criminal who should be in prison"
"I actually think that Bush is the greatest threat to life on this planet that we've most probably ever seen. The policies he is initiating will doom us to extinction"
"The British judiciary is one of the most corrupt in the world"
All courtesy of Ken Livingstone. All of which scare me a hell of a lot more than anything Boris has said.
This "conversation" is pretty amusing, so I will say a few things:
To anonymous the 1st: I think abortion should be allowed at birth. Life begins at birth and therefore abortion before that is NOT ending a life. Newborn babies, no. Obviously. Don't be moronic. I think I just drew a line for you. Hope that helps.
To anonymous the 2nd: Shut up.
To anonymous the 4th: If you think that the only people you need to talk to about your political beliefs are people who haven't yet made up their minds then you are even more pathetic than you appear. You need to be at these meetings making the point that these people are WRONG as well as telling people who haven't decided yet. These arguments need to be had. These people are dangerous and need to be challenged and not just allowed to get on with spreading their filth around our campuses, unchecked, just because they aren't likely to be "swung by marxist ideology". Hopefully you don't take the same approach to the BNP...
To all the anonymous' at the bottom who are talking complete shit:
BoJo = cunt
"Red" Ken = moron
So lets try not to forget that some of us have actual politics that we think are worth upholding and expressing.
In solidaity with Hull-Left activists!
Hx
P.S GET RID OF THAT FREAKIN' MEN'S OFFICER!!!
By "abortion should be allowed at birth" I meant up until birth.
Hx
The Men's Officer will never die.
What are you so bitter about Heather?
Think, how many people voted to keep the Mens officer in comparision to how many have shown up to womens committee events this year, multiples more support the mens officer, if anything its womens officer that should be abolished.
Emmeline Pankhurst (sure you've all heard of her) said abortion has nothing to do with womens rights.
How is a child less alive 1 minute before being born than one minute after? Are you seriously suggesting you should be able to blend a child with a complete central nervous system?
Should Toby (possibly Stephen not sure) not have been aborted?
Heather, you seem to be a very angry and intolerant person! Perhaps if your arguments were more based on logic and less on mindlessly insulting everyone who disagrees with you then you would be taken more seriously.
I was in fact out campaigning and whilst I am very much pro-choice, I did not see how I would change the minds of a group of people who were pro-life and had invited someone to speak about pro-life. As such I made a decision to go out and campaign for a Labour seat which was won in the local elections, however as far as I'm aware, the people who were pro-life at the meeting are infact still pro-life despite the presence of pro-choice activists.
Is it any suprise that I am angry? I'm sitting here in 2008 having to defend women's rights! So yes, I'm angry and you are wrong.
When I said "Life begins at birth and therefore abortion before that is NOT ending a life" I meant it. I am not going to argue the toss with you about whether one minute before birth counts as life or not, mainly because, unlike you, I have enough faith in women to believe that they wouldn't carry a child to full term only to decide during labour that they want an abortion.
Emmeline Pankhurst said it? Oh well then it must be true musn't it? Geez, come on, throw me a bone here. Emmeline Pankhurt also famously ran a campaign called "votes for ladies" that said that only women of wealth and property deserved the right to vote, so excuse me if I don't base my political opinions on soundbites from her.
I really don't understand what you are trying to say aout Toby or Stephen being aborted...
And to nus delegate: if YOUR arguments were actually arguments instead of just bland not-quite-observations of the way I argue then maybe we could engage.
To anonymous 2, again: Abolish the women's officer? Err...no. There is a problem within HUU, a HUGE problem. Where is the campaign to tell people what the women's officer does? Where is the women's officer DOING that stuff? It's no wonder people think the way they do when all they see is a women's officer standing in the foyer holding signs that say "this is what a feminist looks like".
Women are still oppressed. Shocking, I know, in this day and age that a women who doesn't have to wear the hijab or walk behind her husband can say that. Funny how a woman that can have a good job and climb the career ladder can say that. Funny how a woman who can have an abortion (up to 24 weeks, if she lives in the right area and if two doctors thinks its ok) can say that.
You need to open your eyes. The position of the women's officer exists in SU's because women, thats 50% of the world's population, live under patriarchy. Because women are not equal in any sense, in life, in education, in work, in sex, in the media, in politics. The word "slut" still exists and plagues women, women are still fired for getting preganant, women still make up the vast majority of the low-paid workers providing the cleaning and care required by society. Women don't have free choice over what they do with their bodies regarding both abortion and childbirth, women still suffer the majority of domestic violence, rape and sexual assault. It is only if you can deny all these things and deny women's inequality that you can raise calls to abolish the women's representation within your union or any other. A men's officer is a joke. It's an old joke told by the people who consider women's oppression to be a non-issue and these people are laughing at you because you are doing their job for them.
When patriarchy no longer exists and woman no longer face oppression will it be ok to start making jokes about getting rid of the women's officer.
I'm glad you're not running the country, Heather. I imagine that even I would have trouble arguing with someone who's response to my questions would be 'you're wrong'.
Surely it should be women's committees fighting to liberate themselves, rather than women's officers? Surely their only role should be to convene women's committee?
For the record, political equality is longstanding in HUU with more than 50% of recorded officers being women. If the current situation is less amazing, blame the women's officer for not motivating enough women to stand, not the men for preventing them-
every single woman who stood for council last year was elected.
every single woman who stood for council this year was elected.
nearly every sabbatical position contested by a woman was won by a woman.
it's women's LIBERATION officer, heather, not women's REPRESENTATION, get your terminology right
I said women's representation, not women's representation officer so stop being pedantic.
And I'm pretty glad I don't run the country too.
"Surely it should be women's committees fighting to liberate themselves, rather than women's officers? Surely their only role should be to convene women's committee?" - if you take out all the union bullshit then yeah, I agree. Women should be fighting for their own liberation. But no, the only job shouldn't be to convene the committee, it should be to act on what the committee says whilst acting in the best interest of the liberation of women within HUU and wider society. Quite simple really.
It's very good that HUU has equality within its electoral processes. But society is still failing on the equality front so I'm still not going to change my mind.
As for arguing my point by adding that I think you're wrong, personally I think that is the point of holding opinions. I've made my mind up about these things. I have yet to hear anyone argue against my main point i.e patriarchy.
Perhaps that's because we agree that society has been male-dominated for most of history and that there is still a long way to go until women are considered equal, not just in a university educated environment but amongst the wider population, especially the working classes. Domestic violence, sexual offences and rape are problems that are almost exclusively faced by women.
I think the main problem is that too often you feel the need to be so aggressive about it, especially towards men. I know you say that you feel you should be angry- but shouting at people and ranting. There is no desire in HUU to abolish the women's officer, apart from the odd person who just isn't interested in politics and think it would be somehow funny. Oh- and the other thing- a lot of women fought against the abolition of the men's officer, but why? not because of the political reasons, which as you've pointed out, are stupid. But because the women's officer had 'acted in their best interests' by bringing the motion against the men's officer without any consultation, any meeting, or any involvement of women outside of a small clique of friends.
Well I actually happen to know one or two of these 'women' people you keep on talking about and I would guess that if you asked the vast majority of them if they were oppressed, they would say No. I met no one outside the HUU bubble who thought that the stripper show should be cancelled, for example. I knew a few people who were going, all of whom were women.
Men are doing worse in the educaton system and the suicide rate is higher among men, so the imbalance does go the other way too.
Everything's going to be ok.
On your original post Chris you said that you were against religious bigotry on campus. Surely opposing religion based on your own definition of what makes it bigoted is in itself a form of bigotry, and since it is religion you are criticising then you could say that you are yourself practising a form of religious bigotry by opposing those religions you disagree with using a form of intolerant zeal?
Peace be upon this blog
haha Hull Left what a load of sad twats, should you not change your name to Hull extreme or far left to be more accurate - now that my intro to your something beautiful is out of the way.
Heather your arguements are sickeningly racist, picking up your countries colonial legacy and telling the 'savages' what is morally right for them again. I can say that I come from pretty much the only country in the West where abortion remains illegal. Is that a good thing? well yes, one of my best friends who was adopted attributes the fact that he is alive to Irelands abortion laws, reinforced by the people in a consitutional addition in 1983. But we're probably just ignorant Paddys or Micks to you.
Or we could look to some of the other 'primative and backward' former colonies, which just happen to represent the majority of the world where the lives of the unborn are respected, for example India allows abortion incases such rape, incest, fetal defects or risk to the mothers life, but not as a simple alternative to contraception or keeping your clothes on, after all you don't just catch pregnancy walking down the street.
On to womens officer.
Once again your racism comes out, because as you well know among the native populaion of the UK its actually men who are more at risk of domestic violence as home office stats show, aren't you just so civilised!!
Yes men do commit more rapes than women around 100% of them are by men actually because under UK law only a man can commit rape.
The Womens officer here has actually being pretty active, problem is that about 99% of women have no interest in it. Should we keep this bigoted position to keep the tiny minority of left wing fanatics happy?
And just to point out a simple fact women are actually over 50% of the population of the UK and if they felt oppressed could change the government to suit themselves at any election.
So maybe you should stop speaking of the outrage of women and instead speak of the outrage of a tiny, unrepresentative group of extreme leftists.
Pope- Very clever, but no.
You see, I was not trying to push my views on women, unlike the organisers of the meeting.
Barry - thanks for your kind words. But I'm afraid most of the rest of your post was full of inaccuracies.
Unfortunately an abortion in the UK - whilst not as backward as Irish law (more on this later) - is still harder to get than you make out. Indeed, it is easier to abort on continental Europe and the majority of North America than it is here. Here's a colourful map (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/AbortionLawsMap.png)
Now you call us racist... and I was going to just ignore this, but there are a lot of people you are doing an injustice by saying this, especially - as it happens - the multitude of people in Ireland campaigning for the archaic ban on abortion to be lifted (see link at bottom). Women in Ireland with unwanted pregnancies can do 2 things. Firstly, they can partake in the Dickensian sport of back-street abortions, the like of which were popular amongst the working-class in industrialised cities of 19th century Britain. Or alternatively they can spend a hell of a lot of money coming to England and getting one done over here.
It really isn’t too late to repeal your ridiculously nonsensical accusation of racism. Especially the time you probably meant sexism, right?
http://www.safeandlegalinireland.com/
I think that they were organising a private speaker to come and speak on abortion...which women didn't have to attend. In fact, the gender balance in fusion is more or less equal. To be fair, all their materials had their organisation of the event clearly marked, it was clearly pro-life and no-one had to attend, and thus it was not 'forced' on anyone. I actually find that quite ridiculous: the idea that women would go along and be suddenly convinced to be pro-life makes presumptions about women's ability to be swayed which I think are actually quite sexist to make.
Still not getting it.. but it is quite simple:
I don't think anyone other than a woman has the right to tell her what she can and can't do with her body.
Fusion and the CMF do.
Peace.
Chris
"whilst not as backward as Irish law"
Describing Irish law as "backward" just confirms my point, while racist might not have been the most pin point of terms, your views are undeniably motivated by cultural supremacy, you believe that Western countries and civilisation which support abortion are superior to "backward" ones that don't and that these views should be forced on those who don't want them, thats neo-colonialism and the picking up of the "whitemans burden" at its most apt.
The differences between the text of UK law and its practise are also undeniable.
The left in Ireland try to use the travel issue as a claim of economic discrimination. Bullshit you can get a return trip to England from Ireland for about €50 which is about half what is probably spent on the nights out most of these unwanted preganancies come from and about one quarter of a weekly welfare payment in Ireland.
The groups that actively support abortion in Ireland are tiny and almost always associated with the extreme left. Groups which actively oppose abortion usually out number them at protests and are more active.
You also seemed to forget mystery option number 3. Adoption, which doesnt involve ending life.
Also in world which isn't just the west sorry to let you know, anti abortion views are actually progressive as Evangenical Christianity and Conservative Islam are growing at a rate unprecedented in history. The shift of this effect is also being seen in the West now the Christian vote is necessary to win in America and the Islamic vote (which gave the far left its only MP lets not forget) is increasingly important in Europe and will be more so when Turkey joins the EU.
I do like to saber rattle with you people so I would just like to say for clarities sake I don't support a full ban on abortion, but the fact that abortion is so casual now and taken lightly by many is sick.
My point was that by attacking these people for their beliefs, which they aren't trying to impose on others, you are yourself performing an act of religious bigotry. I don't know how to make that any clearer.
You are holding a view as fundamentalist and close-minded as theirs- more so because although they are merely offering the chance for people to come and listen to their views you are actively going to their events to try and impose your views on them.
Will you then offer a retraction of your statement 'no to religious bigotry on campus' and replace it with what you actually mean, which is 'no to religious views on campus', or perhaps 'no to views i disagree with on campus' would be more accurate, looking at the other posts on this blog.
A number of things.
Firstly, I think that your charge of 'cultural supremacy' is completely ridiculous. As I keep having to say, I'm not forcing my belief on anyone; neither attempting to force women to have, or not to have abortions. I do however, have a problem with the authoritarian tradition of telling women what is and what isn't ok for them to do to their own bodies.
There are 'westerners' who are 'pro-life'. Religion, whist very special to a lot of people, has very little to do with their race or even nationality, it's a number of teachings that an individual has adopted.
Galloway isn't 'far left', in fact on stuff like gay-rights and ironically even abortion his views are not synonymous with my own or the majority of the left. Actually, you'll find a hell of a lot more Labour MP's to the left of Galloway.
Right, on to the more disgusting things I've heard on this forum...
"Bullshit you can get a return trip to England from Ireland for about €50 which is about half what is probably spent on the nights out most of these unwanted pregnancies come from and about one quarter of a weekly welfare payment in Ireland."
Barry, does this not strike you as a bit discriminatory? Women on welfare, spending money on going out and getting pregnant? I'm pretty sure that's slightly not a cool thing to conflate.
Besides, the point that it IS economic discrimination. I'm sure a lot of people could technically afford to come to England, but the poorer women would be spending much more of their means. Is having to spend a chunk of her dole on a cheap air ticket punishment enough for getting pregnant to the Irish authorities? Perhaps she should get a job, then this wouldn't happen.
Also, because of the ridiculous stigma caused by abortion, women have to have an alibi to cover for them whilst they have the operation abroad. I've heard some terrible stories about women using knitting needles and coat hangers to cause a miscarriage.
Pope: I could change it to ‘no to sexism on our campus’? Now, I’m obviously absolutely fine with people having religious beliefs, it’s just when that belief exhibits itself externally in a sexist, homophobic, racist or disablist fashion. Then I get pissed. If the BNP had a meeting then the same thing would happen - game on.
(Barry - Do you support the beheading of Iranians for being gay?)
in response to anon 2; who should have been aborted me or steve or both?
Perhaps you should change it then, to "no to discrimination on campus". That way you wouldn't look like you were judging other people and giving people like barry an opening to suggest you're a cultural imperialist (God forbid)- ps. nice hawaian shorts Barry.
Also I've enjoyed posting about 300 times under different names :D keep up the controversial blogging!
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